Trump Versus McCain

How easy it is for hordes of RINOs and others to pile on Donald Trump for his statements disparaging John McCain. Perhaps, we should take a harder look at some of the precepts in play here…

Full disclosure: Since any criticism of the military inevitably invites personal attacks, let me state my own record: While an undergraduate, I had a 2-S student deferment, after which, I was classified 1-A for several years, although this classification became moot after the Vietnam War ended. I was simply never drafted. Had I been drafted, I would have served. Upon learning a great deal about the Vietnam War years later, I concluded that it was a total disaster, producing nothing more than dead and wounded Americans.

Trump questions why a POW should automatically be considered a war hero, and like it or not, his point is well taken. Indeed, during World War II, POWs were regarded as only slightly better than traitors. How did this change?

I submit that the Vietnam War was such an unmitigated catastrophe, that our “leaders” needed to search for any positive story they could possibly come up with. Thus, McCain, a POW, became a hero. As an aside, does this mean that John Kerry and Ron Kovic, both famous protesters of the war–and veterans–were also heroes?

If POWs are heroes, then why did our government, including St. Ronnie himself, eventually give up on finding POWs/MIAs despite credible evidence that there were still hundreds unaccounted for? There are many references extant, including this one that implicates McCain himself in the cover-up.

As to McCain, there are legions who question his heroic status, and references abound implicating him in all sorts of wrongdoing while he was a POW—and before.

Here are but a few links:

McCain gave the North Vietnamese vital information

McCain lies, betrays his fellow soldiers

Big problems regarding the USS Forrestal incident in which 134 died.

McCain’s sordid personal life.

There are dozens of web pages discussing McCain not being a good guy, covering the entire political spectrum. And Donald Trump is the only person who dares take this guy on.

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26 responses to “Trump Versus McCain

  1. I am not a big fan of the Senator, but I am pretty sure that aircrews shot down over enemy territory were NOT considered “slightly better than traitors” during WWII.

    • @Rob–
      To the best of my knowledge, back then the public–and the media for that matter– did not parse out much of a difference. Besides, compared to the Vietnam era, the news reports were highly censored. I assure you, though, that the only ones considered heroes were the guys who actually risked life and limb for their fellow GIs. Calling a POW a hero during that era would have been unthinkable.

  2. McCain started it with his crazies comment … Trump bitch slapped him and McCain still hasn’t gotten up …

    • I distinctly remember McLame in 2007 tagging anyone opposed to the massive illegal invasion from the south as “muppets”. In fact I’ll never forget it.

      If the libcult apotheosis Obamesiah is immune from criticism because of his heroic “blackness”, then I guess McLame must also be immune from any undue examinations for his “heroic misfortunes”?

      Hey, wasn’t Johnny one of the Keating five hereos too? He does seem to have a rather looooong history of ethical, um, “challenges”.

  3. It is precisely this kind of repellent bull**** that has turned this site into a mockery, an unfunny version of The Onion. The best you can do to despoil McCain’s bravery while a POW is to produce some crap from a McCain hater when all his co-prisoners, men who were there, can attest to his bravery undervthe harshest treatment? I despise McCain’s RINO politics, but I respect his bravery. He is a war hero not because he was captured, as the moron in the wig alleges, but because of his conduct AFTER he was captured. I am a vet, proud as hell of the poor bastards who fought, died, and were captured. Thanks for informing us you never served. It explains your cluelessness.

    • @Ken–
      I think you picked the wrong hero. If I had produced 100 links, would that have been enough? For what it’s worth, before I posted this piece, I did speak to several Vietnam vets–who all agreed with me.

      BTW–watch out for that “all his co-prisoners” stuff, since there is plenty of negative material from guys who were POWs with him. Funny how you are all silent on that USS Forrestal incident, or the fact that McCain did his best to halt the search for POWs/MIAs. You might look a bit further into his conduct after his capture before spouting off like you did.

      Next thing you’ll be telling me is that it was worth it for 58,000 guys to die for nothing, or that McCain never got any special treatment in the military. Or that he was a saint when in the military, but it was only afterward that he turned into a scoundrel.

      Guess I was right about the disclosure. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid.

  4. The winners of the Congressional Medal of Honor (who managed to stay alive) uniformly say that the true heroes are the ones who didn’t come home. That bespeaks well to the psychological makeup of those who have actually performed heroic deeds. How does McCain hold up to this criterion?

  5. gonewiththewind

    Trump is from New York and in general they are more brash and confrontational then people from other parts of the country. I see what Trump said as simple confrontational “tit for tat”. Look at what McCain said about Trump and what McCain’s associates said about Trump and it is pretty clear Trump is simply firing back. Was what he said out of bounds? Give me a break. McCain is a big boy and if he can call Trump names why can’t Trump fight back? This is how Obama and Hillary get to deflect criticism because you must be prejudice if you criticize Obama or sexist if you criticize Hillary. It is a mistake to allow this phony “cover” in politics because it prevents adequate investigation and exposure of the people asking for our votes.

  6. luisadownunder

    It seems to me that for anyone who has never served to say anything about someone who has is very ignorant.

    • @luisadownunder–
      Sorry, but this sort of overblown and mindless credentialism merits a slap-down…

      In your fantasy world, because I was not drafted, I have lost some of my free speech rights? But, let’s follow this nonsense to its logical extreme:

      In the case of McCain, there are torrents of negative items on his life and career, but if I–a mere non-draftee–utter the same words, I have no right to do so?

      And, what of my many friends who are Vietnam vets who criticize McCain? Can he answer back and say…

      They were not in the Navy; they were not officers; they were not POWs? And if POWs criticize him, can he answer back that they were not the “marked” son of an admiral? And if some POW was the son of an admiral, could he answer back that they were not the son of a *famous* admiral?

      Do I have no right to criticize Josef Mengele since I was not at Auschwitz (as a prisoner or a German soldier)?

      What, exactly, is so very special about the military that service in it bestows some sort of golden imprimatur? When people criticize police conduct, you almost never hear them dismissed because the complainer is not a cop.

      Never mind the obvious metaphor on a website like this: Who are you to speak about climate change? Are you a climate scientist? Are you the “right” kind of climate scientist?

      And here’s the saddest point of all: This rejection of any criticism of the military by those who did not serve only became a mainstream rhetorical tactic with the advent of disastrous conflicts like Vietnam. Gee, I wonder why? It shuts up the naysayers, and makes the vets who would dearly like to speak up think twice.

      Even then, guys like Ron Kovic–who did serve–and did criticize and did get permanently disabled–got blasted by virtually everyone.

      Gosh, luisadownunder, look at you! A champion of political correctness.

      • luisadownunder

        @Michael
        I have never served in the military: I have never been a police officer, nor fire-fighter nor paramedic.
        I am sure just as there are good and bad people in all walks of life, there are good and bad military personnel etc.
        I tend to hold my tongue when it comes to these particular calls in life, as I could not possibly imagine what they entail or demand from a person.
        I get it. John McCain has ridden the coat-tails of his military career and time as a POW like a badge of honour that supposedly excludes him from criticism.
        I would have thought that Donald Trump was a little cleverer, and if wanting to shut John McCain down, would have chosen a different path; after all, there is plenty to criticize McCain over. His being a POW was not one of them. – unless Donald Trump also had been a POW – then the gloves are off.
        Surely, Trump, with all his business acumen, does not seriously consider that his battle is with another Republican… at this stage?
        Whilst he carries on about McCain, for no gain, Barack Obama is being left to continue down the path of “sainthood”.
        I live in Australia and perhaps this gives me a different perspective and all I can see is that this whole parabola is a Democrat’s wet-dream.
        With all the ganging up against Donald Trump, you would think Donald would know who to beat up with which stick – someone’s time as a POW is not one of them.

        • @luisadownunder–
          Interestingly, the main voices against Trump’s comments are from the RINOs and the media. Most of the right-wing blogosphere, and many of the veterans’ sites are all pro-Trump.

          I think The Donald knows exactly what he is doing. In essence, had McCain *not* have been a scumbag, it would have been a mistake.

          • luisadownunder

            I’m actually not against Trump’s comments, by the way.
            But this becomes too stupid for words.
            What’s next? The size of their dicks?

  7. @Michael
    Without refighting Viet Nam. Those who served didn’t have a lot of choice. The war was a choice made by politicians.

    Disclosure: Lieutenant Colonel, US Army Reserves, Retired. All reserves, no active duty. Army’s choice. In 1970 there was an overabundance of Artillery officers and I was assigned to the reserves and elected to retire in 1996.

    In my opinion anyone who puts on the uniform deserves respect and my respect increases with active duty and those who served in combat get my very high regard for that service.

    Does McCain’s military service qualify him as a hero? It’s a matter of opinion. Did he sell out as a POW? We weren’t there, but I find some of the links weak and more related to the 2008 campaign. The idea that he gave away years of air campaign plans is a stretch. the NVA wasn’t stupid. They knew the likely targets. If not, all they had to do is get U. S. News.

    POW’s are somehow unworthy? The US doesn’t pass out suicide pills and require you take them to evade capture. Do you choose to get your plane shot down in such a way you survive? Easier from the air? The 8th Air Force had more casualties in the ETO than the Marines in the Pacific, but they lived more comfortably.

    Trump’s comments on McCain’s service were out of line, stupid and, in my opinion, despicable. He is not a serious candidate. McCain’s political career is, and should be, fair game. I don’t care for a lot of his politics, but the only ones qualified to attack his military service were those in the Hanoi Hilton with him.

    • @Bob–
      There are dozens of vids from former POWs condemning McCain, and contrary to the expected reaction of vets being up in arms against Trump, the trend seems to be many vets coming out who truly despise McCain.

      Indeed, I was reluctant to post this same piece on a big right-wing site, until I saw an even MORE hard-hitting attack piece already there! And that one was written by a retired NYC cop/ex-marine.

      Why are people defending this guy? Why is military service, nearly 50 years ago, a lifetime free pass?

      Why do his defenders ignore his changing story of USS Forrestal? And his unassailable role in stopping the search for more POWs/MIAs?

      That he has any career at all seems to be only because of the code of honor of ex-military not to speak ill of a fellow officer. But, God forbid, some broke the code. The truth is out there, and it has been suppressed long enough.

      Finally, if Trump is not a serious candidate, what does that make McCain, who ran one of the worst campaigns in modern history—and then blamed his loss on Sarah Palin?

  8. The links are about 1992 POW/MIA hearings and are more than fair game on McCain’s character and politics. As for the Forrestal incident, there are enough conflicting opinions. I’ve even read that McCain was supposedly responsible for the types of bombs used. McCain’s post Navy career provides enough fodder to attack him. Trump was out of line and loses all credibility when he starts downplaying POW’s.

    • @Bob–
      I get it! McCain deserves a lifetime free pass, but Trump loses all credibility. You still haven’t explained how being a POW equates to being a hero. I guess we need a new word for the likes of Audie Murphy.

      Is it the undeserved suffering that makes him a hero? Does that mean every person fighting cancer is also a hero? How about victims in 9/11 and their families. Are they heroes too?

      Arguably, McCain knowingly signed up for this possibility.

      One more thing. Why didn’t Joe McCarthy’s distinguished military record grant *him* a free pass?

      In 1942 McCarthy, volunteered for the Marines (as a judge he was draft exempt), becoming an intelligence officer in an aviation unit heavily engaged in combat in the South Pacific. Although assigned a desk job McCarthy flew numerous combat missions as a tail gunner—he exaggerated the number to qualify for a Distinguished Flying Cross.

      During his 30 months of military service, McCarthy’s record was unanimously praised by his commanding officers and Admiral Chester Nimitz, commander in chief of the Pacific Fleet. Admiral Nimitz issued the following citation regarding the service of Captain McCarthy:

      “For meritorious and efficient performance of duty as an observer and rear gunner of a dive bomber attached to a Marine scout bombing squadron operating in the Solomon Islands area from September 1 to December 31, 1943. He participated in a large number of combat missions, and in addition to his regular duties, acted as aerial photographer. He obtained excellent photographs of enemy gun positions, despite intense anti-aircraft fire, thereby gaining valuable information which contributed materially to the success of subsequent strikes in the area. Although suffering from a severe leg injury, he refused to be hospitalized and continued to carry out his duties as Intelligence Officer in a highly efficient manner. His courageous devotion to duty was in keeping with the highest traditions of the naval service.”

      • Maybe there is a difference between the definition of hero and valor. Both my wife and I are veterans, me USAF and she USN, having served during Vietnam, but having a ribbon for serving during that time or having a purple heart is not significant for valor. My father had a bronze star, which is awarded for valor.
        Based on this, how do you classify John McCain?
        Was everyone who marched in the Bataan death march a hero?
        What about all the Union soldiers held in Andersonville?

  9. Lee Harvey Oswald was an honorably discharged Marine veteran.

  10. Donald Trump’s words were taken out of context. John McCain’s words about Trump’s followers were ignored. And this whole false flag was used to take people’s attention away from another muslim doing violence to Americans, the inanity of the treaty with Iran, and the bypassing of the Senate in regards to said treaty. The smoke-and-mirrors worked very well. The media must be very proud of themselves.

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